Summer of Andrew: Denouement

This blog certainly has shown how you’ve grown over the years. I hope you continue to use it as your outline for your life; writing down your hopes and dreams and then using it as a check list as you begin to shape your perfect life.

Stay strong and never lose sight of your ultimate goal. I’m sure you’ll make it.

And it’s good to get your faith back. I stepped away from mine sometime ago, occasionally wandering back now and again for hope for guidance. Though recently I have found myself crawling back before collapsing. Shits been rough; I don’t know exactly what religion you follow nor do you have to say. All I know is I’ve lately been hoping to God that he’ll grant this lost sheep her chance at happiness.

Thanks Steph.

I don’t think this is me getting my faith back as much as it is… breaking down the boundaries between all my different “lives.” Before, I always emphasized my faith in my real life, but now I know it has to apply online too. Maybe I’ve always known.

I don’t know what religion you are either, but I am a Bible church Christian. It’s similar to Baptist, but mostly non-denominational. I would love it if religion was one of the things we could converse freely about. If that makes you uncomfortable, I understand. It would have made me uncomfortable a couple years ago too.

Nah, I’m not uncomfortable about it. I always tell people I’m Roman Catholic, but with my own twist to it. I believe in the religion’s main teachings but when it comes to their views on politics… I disagree quite a lot. So I kinda contradict what living a “good” Catholic life is and I don’t condemned people to hell as easily as the rest seem to.

I have a lot of problems with many tenets of Catholicism (they basically stem from the fact that I believe grace is free), but that’s another discussion entirely.

In lieu of that I’m actually very moderate (at least according to this political survey I took last year.) I’m very very close to the center, a lot closer than the other two people who took it.

See I look at it this way… Almost every religion states that anyone who believes in it will go to a place of salvation and everyone who doesn’t will go to hell. So by this logical, every religious person in the world is going to be both saved and damned at the same time because your religion will save you while another religion is going to cast you into the flames. I know most religions say that their’s is the only true one, but I just can’t accept the idea that a person who’s lived a life of good is going to spend eternity into hell just because what they believe is different than from what I was raised to believe.

After all, no one knows what God truly looks like. How do we know that we aren’t all worshiping the same great, powerful entity but all see Him in a different form? And use a different name?

As blasphemous as that may sound, that’s just how I see the world. Unless you’re doing something that is clearly evil… I don’t really care. But hell, my religion always states I’m going to hell because I believe in the paranormal and *gasp* evolution.

One of the core tenets of my faith is that the Bible is canon. Therefore, it cannot be wrong. It sounds arrogant, but in reality, if you read the book it makes a lot of sense.

Basically, if lying is bad, and if the Bible is good, the Bible cannot lie. It’s the same thing with Jesus. A couple of faiths say he’s only a good prophet instead of a savior, but if that’s true, then he was lying about who he was and that automatically makes him not a good prophet. It requires critical thinking to learn and know things like this.

Personally, my faith works for me because I see it as sound and logical and consistent, and that’s the kind of person I am. It makes sense to me that anyone not believing in Jesus goes to hell, because he said so himself. (John 14:6)

Conversely, everyone is able to achieve life because of what he did. He may be the only way now, but without him there wouldn’t be any way. As an aside, right here is about where I have some major problems with Catholicism: they believe you can lose your salvation if you do something bad enough or you stop believing.

I don’t. Grace was a free gift. (Ephesians 2:8) It cannot be taken away by anyone or anything, that’s the definition of a gift. So in my view, what’s laid down in the Bible is actually hugely forgiving and full of love. It’s a shame that it’s perceived as mostly damning and hateful.

Hope I don’t come off as pithy or self-righteous. As for your last comment, as far as I’m concerned, if the Bible doesn’t mention it and man comes up with an answer, it can be logically believed that such an answer is right. Usually. I’ve argued with people in my church that just because the Bible doesn’t mention aliens, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I personally don’t think they do, but you never know. It’s best to keep an open mind so another Galileo incident doesn’t happen. So I’m with you as far as that goes.

PS- I had to look up the verses in this comment. Eventually I’d like to know them off the top of my head, of course. The Bible is an excellent piece of literature, even objectively. Everybody seeking education, especially authors and writers, should read it. I haven’t started reading yet, but I hope to start soon.

I read quite a bit of it back in grade/middle school. I was put through a Catholic private school from preschool up until 8th grade and had all the sacraments and stuff. Yet, I don’t base my belief on it word for word. Perhaps it just comes from the differences in being raised.

You are completely right though with how Catholicism basically uses fear to control its followers. For years I grew up afraid to do things because I had priests tell me I’d have to repent and do a bunch of shit to show God I was forgiven before I could even be considered good enough to return to a mass. (With Catholicism, they teach that you can be too “unworthy” to receive Jesus – the Eucharist – at Mass if you’ve done something deemed too sinful.)

For a Father who is suppose to be so merciful and forgiving, that just didn’t add up to me… Eventually I just said, “Well fuck it” and did it. Why? Because I’m human; not a saint. I’m sure if I went to Confession the priest would flip out but none of it is humanly bad. I didn’t kill anyone or hurt anyone or rape anyone or anything. I was just tolerant of things that the Church was against and I don’t fear going to hell for any of it. I’ve lived a good and honest life. I don’t deny God’s existence so I’d like to believe that the day I die and I’m judged I’ll still be seen as a good person.

I mean honestly… The hell is the Devil gonna do with me? Ah I can just see it now in 60 years:

“Muahaha Welcome to Hell, Steph! What are you here for? Let’s see… You’ve been generous, honest, truthful, faithful to your husband… Eh… Kind and caring… A good mother… but you follow the theories of Darwinism… and you… stole a dollar from your mom’s dresser. Um… Just go sit over there and have some coco.”

(Bonus points for reading that in the Robot Devil voice.)

(With Catholicism, they teach that you can be too “unworthy” to receive Jesus – the Eucharist – at Mass if you’ve done something deemed too sinful.)

Yeah. Our view on that is that you have to be “in fellowship” with God. Basically, you have to confess your sins to be in fellowship. At that point the Holy Spirit is imputed to you. And at that point, you are a spotless lamb of God.

Taking “the Eucharist” (aka “communion” to us) while being in sin is a pretty big no-no, though. But basically, the only reason you should do it in the first is that you believe and you want to remember Jesus’ accomplishments. The only other “ritual” outlined in the Bible, baptism, is if you believe and you want to publicly proclaim as much.

Basically, those two rituals are only for people who actually believe. So doing them when you don’t is a kind of defiling (or lying.) Then again, why would you do them if you weren’t a believer and in fellowship anyways? Too much social pressure and drama dominates churches today.

Because I’m human; not a saint. I’m sure if I went to Confession the priest would flip out but none of it is humanly bad.

Another problem I have with Catholicism: their interpretation of “saint.” Really, every believer is a saint – it’s very clear from Paul’s writing this is the case. Even worse though is that the Catholic church repeatedly turns these good believers into idols, which is one of things that kinda ticks God off the most. Mary is the worst – Catholics idolize her as some sort of deity, but in reality she was just a human. A believer and mother of Christ, yes, but still just a human. “Praying to the saints” is a phrase that routinely rubs under my skin.

I’ve lived a good and honest life. I don’t deny God’s existence so I’d like to believe that the day I die and I’m judged I’ll still be seen as a good person.

This is the part I could be seen as self-righteous, so if I step over a line, I apologize.

Who defines “good?” In Aztec civilizations, child sacrifices were “good.” In uncivilized parts of the world, cannibalism is “good.” Etc.

The Bible actually makes it very easy to know what is “good” and “not good,” it’s almost like a list of things God likes and doesn’t like.

Steph, I don’t view you as inherently good.

I don’t view myself as inherently good, either.

That baby in the maternity ward? Not good, either.

There were only three people in the entire history of the world that God deemed as “good,” blameless and without sin to begin with. Two of them lost it relatively quickly. The third died and took on all sin so God’s goodness could be given to anyone.

Really, everyone is dirt. Less than dirt, really. We were all born like that, too. But accepting that gift I was talking about before yields life.

This also goes back to the “consistency” I was talking about. To me, this what I’m talking about here is very systematic, and almost code-like. If (faith = true), good; else if (faith != true), not good. Whereas your views, to me, seem too relativistic and shaky. I view them as a slippery slope.

I feel like I need a Sunday time TV show after this comment. Again, sorry if I stepped over any lines. I just hope I got across what I believe, and why I believe it.

Well of course I base my belief on what is “good” from the Bible.the teachings of Jesus, the prophets before him, and the ones who spread the Word afterwords. And naturally, no human being is very going to be entirely good but that’s just part of being human. We all lie or cheat or steal or hurt someone or make a mistake somewhere and numerous times in our lives. Of course the level of how sinful or how bad each one is that we do varies but still I’m sure we – and most people – can agree that there is a pretty set standard of what is generally good. I’m not trying to justify or defend other ancient cultures practices. I am simply just trying to explain the bases of my views.

And no reason to apologize. We both have our own views and our own reasons for why we see the world the way we do. Being tolerant and open-minded is just how I am.

Thanks for your understanding, Steph. It really speaks to your character how calmly you can talk with me about this. Talk like this with almost anyone else on the net would probably be inundated with stupid comments.

As for your comment, I simply don’t agree with it. Just because everyone lies or cheats doesn’t make it right, it still has to be confessed.

But here’s the thing, salvation isn’t based on confession. It’s based on belief.

…and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
-Acts 16:25-33

While in your faith you should be constantly trying to conform to God’s word, nothing you do after believing can take away your salvation. You’ll got to heaven, basically. No strings attached. I keep emphasizing “gift” here, but it really is as simple as that.

The flipside is that people routinely try to “earn” salvation. “Earning a gift!” Lol. That sounds so funny to me. To harp on the Catholics again, they try to combine faith and works at several levels. But Paul says himself faith and works cannot mix! You can’t be “good enough” on your own. You have to swallow your arrogance and admit you need God by believing. (Edit- I didn’t mean “you” here as you, Steph, but as a catch-all for everyone.)

Back to the start of my comment, if you believe and act in faith (conform to God’s word), you will produce what Jesus and Paul call “fruit.” This is “work” but done in the power of the Holy Spirit.

At the time of judgment, works without faith (wood, hay, and stubble) and works with faith (precious metals) stand in front of you and before God. All the works enter a purging fire. Of course, the precious metals remain and the wood and hay are burned away. This could be a clever parable, but I like to believe this will literally happen.

Basically, if you throw a fundraiser to help leukemia patients, it has no real merits in God’s eyes. You may have helped them temporarily, but you didn’t give them what they needed. If they had died later that day or seven months in the future, they still would have gone to hell. But if you do such a fundraiser as a believer, you can administer physical wellness as well as spiritual. Hay versus gold.

This comment got a little heavy. But I wanted to touch on a couple areas I thought you might be thinking about.

I believe we have a misunderstanding here. I am not saying that just because everyone does it (i.e: stealing, lying, cheating, etc…) makes it right. I am simply stating that it’s humanly impossible to live a life that is completely sinless. I do agree with the fact that in order for your wrongs to become rights, you need to confess them. So we were stating the same thing, just explaining it differently and not clear enough.

And I do have strong belief despite my mannerisms. Most of my outlook on life comes from that belief. As I stated, I believe God wouldn’t be displeased with my soul despite the fact that I’ve done things my church says is wrong. I always asked for a sign before I made a decision, and a “feeling” always came. Something I could never explain and so far, that “feeling” is what lead me to down the right path.

So while I may come off as being… whatever you want to call it… Unstable, confused, dazed… I don’t doubt my faith in Him.

That’s great! I mean that. It’s good I finally have someone like you to talk about this kind of stuff.

And yeah, that was a breakdown in communication. Of course, everyone who believes is still under temptation to sin, so no surprises there Steph. It’s just with Catholics, you’re usually doing a lot more “wrong” in their eyes. IMO they emphasize the wrong things, but we are still one in Christ.

As for “feelings,” that statement is contrary to the “systematic” faith I’ve been explaining. In my eyes, it’s better to go to a college dissertation on a book of the Bible than it is to go to one of those “praise” Churches that sing a bunch of songs and have “praise Jesus!” type reverends. Of course, I’m also not a fan of Catholic/congregational types of services, which involve a lot of rituals and chanting. (I attended a Catholic school for three years.)

IMO, we are called by God to learn about him. Learning about him is the best form of worship, in my view. And really, there’s no deeper or more important subject you could spend your life studying. So I tend to rely less on “feelings” and more on studying what the Word actually says.

I had a friend in high school, who I think said he was “Buddhist” but then switched to Islam because he “felt something” when he read a passage of the Koran. Discounting the fact I don’t accept that religion as truth, it just seems kind of hokey to me. “You’re going to base such a huge decision on a whim?” Of course, I think those in high school divert to lesser practiced religions for attention, usually. Or they’re too lazy to give a damn. I’m glad I was saved almost right before high school started, it gave me a solid foundation to work from and form views around.

I’m glad you feel so comfortable and open with speaking about such things. I’m honored I could be among the first to see you break through your barrier.

And yeah, Catholicism believes heavily on how almost everything that’s human is wrong and you have to suffer or fast in order to prove yourself worth of forgiveness. I suppose that is part of the reason why I morphed into such a more laid-back style of believing. I don’t believe in having to overly punish yourself for making a mistake. The pain from guilt is bad enough. I don’t see it being necessary to do more to show God how sorry you are unless you do something serious.

I’m a strong believe in having a direct connection to God via faith. By this I mean that I think God is going to understand the truthfulness behind my confession because He can see and sense the deep sense of sorrow and guilt I carry until that weight is lifted.

You and I have a common belief and a common spiritual goal but I believe after this discussion, it’s obvious to show that we have different callings on how to act upon it. You seem to be very driven by the direct Word and seem to believe heavily on the gifts you’ve been giving and tending to the to continue to strength your faith.

I, on the other hand, seem to be based more on passion. Now, I use that word loosely though. I don’t use it with the intend that you don’t feel passionate or strongly about your faith. I just base a lot an indescribably feeling I get. Almost like a voice guiding me along but the voice comes from a powerful, righteous figure. So I trust it. Maybe it’s my guardian angel or some deceased relative or maybe it’s God himself.

I’ve had this small, silver cross in my room. I’ve had it hanging over my bed ever since I was little. I’ve always felt like it HAD to be there. It brought me a sense of comfort and protection. So needless to say, I trust that gut feeling because as crazy and as unorthodox as it may sound, I feel it’s God’s guidance speaking to me.

Indeed.

Be careful though, I do know of some crazies who have used that “God was talking to me” excuse. Not to say you’re crazy, of course.

And here’s the thing, if it’s not him (and it most likely isn’t), then his guidance is you. You, helping yourself! Of course, asking for constant guidance should be a priority, but I believe God works in much more subtle ways than speaking directly into someone’s noggin.

Our views seem to be mostly compatible, I’m surprised given both of our backgrounds. This difference is pretty petty in the grand scheme of things, really. But I’m sure we’ll talk about it more in the future.

don’t believe in having to overly punish yourself for making a mistake. The pain from guilt is bad enough. I don’t see it being necessary to do more to show God how sorry you are unless you do something serious.

My faith is so systematic that guilt isn’t even part of the equation. At least, in asking for forgiveness. The main thing is admitting to wrongdoing – this is pouring water on your arrogance in a way similar to believing in the first place. Because if you need to “feel guilty” to confess, it opens the door to a lot of misinterpretation. And I do believe the Bible doesn’t mention guilt in confessing at all.

My faith is so systematic that guilt isn’t even part of the equation. At least, in asking for forgiveness. The main thing is admitting to wrongdoing – this is pouring water on your arrogance in a way similar to believing in the first place. Because if you need to “feel guilty” to confess, it opens the door to a lot of misinterpretation. And I do believe the Bible doesn’t mention guilt in confessing at all.

This is simply just a difference in teachings and how we were raised. Catholicism practically forces guilt.

Guilt is… the natural reaction to wrongdoing. It’s a decent enough motivator for confession, but it ends there. In fact, I was taught that feeling guilty about something after you’ve confessed it is a sin! The argument goes that you’re saying God can’t take the sin (however bad it may be), which makes him a lier. Dunno if I believe that extreme, but it is something I always thinks about, and helps clear my conscience.

Whatever works for you.

Guilt has been one of my worst enemies. It still haunts me for some things I did in the past but that could be because I don’t feel properly forgiven. Though that has nothing to do with God. I feel as if I haven’t been forgiven by the person I wronged.

That is important as well. But as long as you are truly sorry and you love that person unconditionally (not love as in smoochy smoochy, love as in, caring for that person and not feeling angry or hateful towards them,) then your end is taken care of. Of course, if you do care for that person, you would naturally want them to forgive you as well, both for their own sake and for your sake. It’s a rocky road, indeed.

Indeed it is.

Especially when that person use to be a lover.

Shit gets impossible to get over.

I’m not going to pretend it’s always easy. Sometimes God commands us to do things that seem too hard, or unreasonable. Remember when Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac? Imagine how hard that would be, killing your own son who you love.

Or Job, which is usually my go-to book in times of strife. He had everything taken away, his many kids, his health, even his wife left him. His three “friends” even beat up on him for continuing to believe in God! But in the end, his faith was rewarded. His health was restored, he was made wealthy, his wife returned, and they had many more children together.

Point is, life isn’t easy. And quite frankly I’m sick of people expecting it to be (I don’t include you in that because you share my views on taking life by the horns.) I know you have strength Steph.

I know but it does get very complicated because sometimes it is best to let sleeping dogs lay.

It’s not just my life in account here; it’s his too. It’s been eight months since the break up and six months since the last word between us was spoken. (Damn… the wounds still feel so fresh.) I know that during those first two months he took it much harder than me before contact had to be complete cut for both our health and sanity.

I’m scared to confront him because if he’s moved on (and I hope he has), I don’t want to open those wounds again. Because if he hasn’t… Imagine the pain he’d feel knowing that while I feel guilty about what happened… I have a new man in my life and I’m better off now than I was with him and we were together for almost five years while Rob and I have just barely made it past five months.

That is a tough spot Steph. I’d probably ask for Rob’s opinion if I were you.

Personally though I think you’ve handled things pretty well. You’ve stabilized and I can tell, just by your recent announcements and such, that you’re working through it. It’s OK if it doesn’t happen all at once, I hope you know that.

It’s cliched and I hate to say it, but time does heal all wounds.

You’ve spilled your guts for me, so I want to offer up some of my history. Nobody on the internet knows any of the following, just my closest family. I think I hinted at it once or (maybe) twice, but I’ve never elaborated.

You know when I said I attended Catholic school for three years? That was grades five to eight.

In December of my last year, I did something I shouldn’t have, and I got expelled from that Catholic school. What I did involved some of the teachers, not directly, but, well, I’m a creative, so you can imagine something a creative could make with a computer.

So that was it. Three years of making friends, gone. My future, which had seemed so bright before, had dimmed so low… it was almost black. The worst part of this whole event was telling my family. Telling my grandmother is, to this day, the single hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my entire life.

It’s not easy transferring mid-year to a new middle school, especially when it would have been my last year. So I was homeschooled. It was a very lonely and isolated time. I became depressed.

That Christmas, when I had been expecting to get a new computer, it was given to my older sister instead for my actions. I didn’t deserved it of course, but it didn’t make it sting any less.

That Christmas was the only one I cried for.

To this day, I still feel pangs of guilt and regret over my portrayal of my teachers, especially one. I really, really liked that teacher, and I feel so bad about what I had done.

This is beginning to become an Elliot Reid story, so I’ll sum up. I still feel bad about what I had done to those teachers, but I know I’ll never be able to personally ask for forgiveness from them. Sometimes, it’s best to move on.

That is what I think the best decision, which is why I’m desperately trying to move. Right now I’m too surrounded by the past and sweet memories which have now soured.

A lot happened within my own home involving my relationship with Paul and also with Rob. The painful past is clashing with the bittersweet present. I need to get away in order to shape a better future for myself.